红色中国网

标题: 在本网有贬低托洛茨基的倾向 [打印本页]

作者: 马列托主义者 时间: 2014-1-3 08:33:57 标题: 在本网有贬低托洛茨基的倾向

本帖最后由马列托主义者于 2014-1-3 08:45 编辑

在本网有贬低托洛茨基的倾向，很多毛派井蛙一样认为毛泽东是当代的马列，世界左派都在毛泽东思想下活动

有趣的是被伪共封锁的马克思主义文库中不管是英文法文各国语言还是中文的首页都没有毛和斯大林的头像而有托洛茨基的头像，韩语首页有Trotsky，说明了什么，世界影响力？

邓小平在马克思主义文库中根本没有位置，毛有位置，但是和一般马列主义者同列

毛派能解释这一现象吗

托洛茨基才是马列主义的正统

马克思主义文库网址： http://www.marxists.org/chinese/

在这里的毛派看来毛的旗子在中国大有市场，我认为是夸大了事实，的确有些落后份子，有很多都是从民族主义角度举毛的，甚至还有官僚主义份子，还有就是封建迷信份子。这些恰恰是马列主义的反动，并且阻碍了中国的社会主义运动。

作者: 王海明 时间: 2014-1-3 19:33:43

本帖最后由王海明于 2014-1-3 19:35 编辑

我在国外已有二十几年了，在我的周圍有不少人都是国外的共産党朋友。一提起毛主席无人不知，不知毛主席等于不知中国。但当我提起托洛茨基，居然无人知曉，連托兄的名字都没有听説過。毛主席活在世界人民的心中，而托兄只活在你的“文庫”中，不了解外面真實世界的井底之蛙是你自己。

作者: 马列托主义者 时间: 2014-1-3 20:09:54

本帖最后由马列托主义者于 2014-1-3 21:01 编辑

王海明发表于 2014-1-3 19:33
我在国外已有二十几年了，在我的周圍有不少人都是国外的共産党朋友。一提起毛主席无人不知，不知毛主席等于 ...

希特勒的名气也很响
不知道托洛茨基只能说明你认识的人的档次低（这种档次不是工作或阶级地位而是这种人对马列主义基本无知的人），这种人可能对马列主义基本东西都不懂的人，这种人居然还是国外的共产党朋友，你骗自己还差不多，这种人如果是共产党员，简直笑死人了。你有脸说出来，真有你的。这种共产党员是不是如中国8000万共产党员中的农村基层共产党员，其中还有文盲，这种人加入共产党完全是盲从，是从利益角度出发的（中国8000万党员中有大多数人可能共产党宣言都没有读过，很多人对马列主义是一窍不通的，加入共产党完全是自私自利的利益动机），在中国很多的共产党员到确实不知道托洛茨基的，因为他们根本就是加入一个官僚俱乐部而已。我可以确定在中国知道托洛茨基的比知道毛的人要少一千万倍，但这又能说明什么呢，中国人知道毛就知道蒋介石，知道邓小平，确实很少人知道托洛茨基，在中国文盲都知道毛泽东，只有真正的马克思主义知识分子才知道托洛茨基。在马克思主义圈子里面，从文库中就能发现谁真正继承马列主义。各国的马克思主义者对待斯毛的理论和托洛茨基的理论地位来看，马恩列托才是正统。

作者: 马列托主义者 时间: 2014-1-3 20:31:30

本帖最后由马列托主义者于 2014-1-3 20:40 编辑

知道不知道托洛茨基至少可以表明这个人的马列主义素养，即使他不认同托洛茨基，或者对共运历史（就是和马列主义有关的运动）的理解程度，但是知道不知道毛泽东，和他懂不懂马列主义没有关系。外国人知道毛泽东，可能不过是对中国有兴趣，就如对华盛顿，蒋介石，希特勒的了解一样。你的马列主义素养很低的共产党朋友肯定也知道希特勒，蒋介石。如果一个马列主义者不知道托洛茨基，那时要贻笑大方的。当然作为一个马列主义者也应当知道毛泽东。如果说自己是马列主义者，然后谈到毛泽东，他一无所知，同样反映了他的素养不够（理论素养等）

作者: 王海明 时间: 2014-1-3 21:38:25

本帖最后由王海明于 2014-1-3 21:55 编辑

马列托主义者发表于 2014-1-3 20:09
希特勒的名气也很响
不知道托洛茨基只能说明你认识的人的档次低（这种档次不是工作或阶级地位而是这种人 ...

你怎麼知道我認識的人档次低，你算什麼档次？只不過一个小混混，就口出狂言。就算凭你那几个档次高的人，脱離广大人民群众，人民群众連托兄的名字都不知道，就能糊里糊塗跟随你們搞出世界革命？対別人一点也不了解，就凭自己的偏見主観想像，典型的主観唯心主義者！

作者: 老汉 时间: 2014-1-4 10:48:11

这是谁办的网站？明明是一个托派网站，能没有他的祖师爷托洛斯基行吗？中国只有陈独秀头像，没有毛泽东头像，说明陈独秀在中国的贡献和影响比毛泽东大？不是，因为陈独秀是中国的托派。我找一个毛派办的网站，里面就没有一个托洛斯基，能说明什么？不要成天搞这种神经兮兮的东西，正是白费时间，我本不想跟帖，但又觉得应该让大家明白，马列托成天在玩弄什么？还有对托洛斯基理论的认识还要有个层次，反证说明马列托的层次高于他人，一部理论著作不能为普通人了解，那么这个理论只能指导贵族运动，不能指导人民革命。好理论就应该被人民所接受，并去实践，没有人要他，如同大街上卖烂货，喊破嗓子没人要，这个货只有自己用。今天世界上有几个共产党是用托洛斯基理论作为指导思想的？可是把毛主义作为指导思想的共产党不少，所以世界人民眼睛是雪亮的。

作者: 马列托主义者 时间: 2014-1-4 11:30:49

本帖最后由马列托主义者于 2014-1-4 12:13 编辑

老汉发表于 2014-1-4 10:48
这是谁办的网站？明明是一个托派网站，能没有他的祖师爷托洛斯基行吗？中国只有陈独秀头像，没有毛泽东头像 ...

你也弄出个几个世界影响力的毛主义网站让我看看，不要腾口徒说。
另外毛泽东被各种势力利用，民族主义等等，越用越反动，
世界上共产党以毛主义为核心的，特别是发达国家，能有几个？

作者: 马列托主义者 时间: 2014-1-4 11:42:33

马克思主义文库中文版的自我介绍哪里说他们是托派？

我们是谁？

网上的马克思主义文库──马克思主义文库几位志愿者谈文库的宗旨、工作和展望

*　　*　　*

亲爱的朋友，这也许是第一次，也许是不知多少次您来到这里。我们真诚地欢迎您的光临！

我们是工作在各种岗位上的马克思主义爱好者和志愿者。传播马克思主义和共产主义是我们建设这个马克思主义文库的目的。

我们这个团体的志愿者们来自世界各地。从东亚到西亚，从北美到南美，从东欧到西欧，从北非到南非，从拉丁美洲到大洋洲都有我们的志愿者在辛勤地工作。我们中文板块的马克思主义文库志愿者主要是来自世界各地的华人共产主义者。

如果您是个马克思主义爱好者，想学习或研究马克思主义，那么我们十分愿意成为您的朋友。

马克思主义是关于人类解放的科学理论。人类解放的伟大事业需要无数的有共产主义理想的人们的积极参与。

如果您觉得共产主义的理想太遥远，建设共产主义的工作太艰巨而迷茫不知所措，那您最最需要的就是找到自己的同志，并从点滴的力所能及的事情开始。

参加建设我们这个马克思主义文库，就是一个良好的开端。

如果您有意参与建设中文马克思主义文库，而又不知道该如何开始的话，欢迎您和我们联系。特别的，目前我们有大量文档资料需要转换上传到网络上，需要义务校对人员，如果您有这方面的空闲时间和愿望，有意参加的话，欢迎联系。

让我们携手向前，为在全球实现共产主义而奋斗！

作者: 马列托主义者 时间: 2014-1-4 11:58:36

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作者: 老汉 时间: 2014-1-4 12:05:58

不要沿街叫卖了，没有人理睬。自己吹吧！

作者: 马列托主义者 时间: 2014-1-4 12:18:40

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Action IWA           e-mail
anar. ex-AIT - - f. 1999 as split from WSA
African People's Socialist Party auxiliary organization
APSP The Burning Spear
e-mail
black rad. left. nat.      - - f. 1972, led by Omali Yeshitali
All-African People's Revolutionary Party local group
AAPRP      e-mail
black left. nat.      - - f. 1972
Alliance Marxist-Leninist (North America)
Alliance e-mail
stal. ISML - - f. 1989
American Indian Movement - Grand Governing Council
AIM-GGC      e-mail
indian nat.      - - f. 1993 as split from other AIM, led by Vernon Bellecourt
American Indian Movement - International Federation of Autonomous Chapters
AIM-IFAC      e-mail
indian left. nat.      - - f. 1968, led by Russell Means
Anarchist Communitarian Network
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anar.      - - f. 2001
Anarchist People of Color
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anar.      - -
Arissa
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rad. left.      - -
Atlantic Anarchist Circle other page
                    - -
Barrio Union (Unión del Barrio)      La Verdad
e-mail
chicano left. nat.      - - f. 1981
Bay Area Anarchist Communists           e-mail
anar. com.      - - f. 2003
Black Autonomy Network of Community Organizers BANCO           anar.      - -
Black Radical Congress
BRC      e-mail
black rad. left. nat.      - - f. 1998
Bolshevik Tendency           Tel. +1-510-2782971 tro. IBT - - f. 1982 as split from Spartacist League
Bring the Ruckus
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anar. com.      - - f. 1997
Committee for a Unified Independent Party / International Workers Party unofficial CUIP/IWP      e-mail
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Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism
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e-mail
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Communist Voice Organization
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tro.      - - f. 2002
December 12th Movement      Arm the Masses e-mail
black rad. left. nat.      - - led by Omowale Clay
Democratic Socialists of America
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e-mail
left. soc. SI on list of Democratic Party - f. 1983, active in Democratic Party

作者: 马列托主义者 时间: 2014-1-4 12:20:21

Echanges et Mouvement
          left. com.      - -
Federation of Northwest Anarchist Communists FNAC      e-mail
anar. com.      - - f. 2002
Federation of Revolutionary Anarchist Collectives
FRAC      e-mail
anar.      - - f. 2002
Freedom Road Socialist Organization [Fight Back]
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e-mail
stal. ICS - - f. 1999 as split from other FRSO
Freedom Road Socialist Organization [Freedom Road]
FRSO Freedom Road
e-mail
ex-mao., stal. ICS - - f. 1985
Freedom Socialist Party
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e-mail
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Great Plains Anarchist Network
     e-mail
anar.
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e-mail
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The Green Alliance
     e-mail
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Independent Progressive Politics Network
IPPN Independent Politics News e-mail
left. soc.      - - f. 1995, alliance
Industrial Workers of the World
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anar. syn. IWW - - f. 1905
International Communist Current ICC Internationalism
left. com. ICC - -
International Socialist Organization
ISO Socialist Worker, International Socialist Review
e-mail
tro. ex-IS - - f. 1977
Internationalist Group
Internationalist e-mail
tro. LFI - - f. 1996 as split from Spartacist League
Internationalist Perspective      Internationalist Perspective
left. com.      - - f. 1986 as split from ICC
Internationalist Workers' Group other page
Internationalist Notes
e-mail
left. com. IBRP - - f. 2002
Labor Party
Labor Party Press e-mail
left. soc.      - - f. 1996, led by Mark Dudzic
Labor Standard
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e-mail
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New Democracy
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     - -
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left. soc.           - f. 1991
News & Letters Committees
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anar. com.      - - f. 2002
Republic of New Afrika RNA The New Afrikan      black rad. left. nat.      - - f. 1968
Revolutionary Anti-Authoritarians of Color
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anar.      - - f. 2001
Revolutionary Communist Party RCP Revolutionary Worker / Obrero Revolucionario
fax: +1-312-227-4497 mao. RIM - - f. 1975
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tro. ITC - - f. 1976 as split from Spartacist League
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tro. TPI - - led by Jen Cobbins
Social Democrats USA
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Socialist Action
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Socialist Alternative
Justice
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tro. CWI - - f. 1986 as Labor Militant, active in Labor Party
Socialist Equality Party, other page
SEP      e-mail
tro. ICFI 0.00076% 0.0015% f. 1966 as Workers League
Socialist Labor Party
SLP The People
e-mail
DeLeonist      - - f. 1876
Socialist Organizer
The Organizer
e-mail
tro. SIQI - - active in Labor Party
Socialist Party USA
SPUSA The Socialist
e-mail
left. soc.      0.013% 0.0061% f. 1901
Debs Tendency
     e-mail
rad. left.      - - f. 2003
Socialist Workers Organization SWO Socialist Viewpoint
e-mail
tro.      - - f. 2001 as split from Socialist Action

作者: 马列托主义者 时间: 2014-1-4 12:21:56

Socialist Workers' Party SWP The Militant
e-mail
tro. SWP 0.0026% 0.0070% f. 1937, led by Jack Barnes
Society for Economic Equality
     e-mail
DeLeonist      - - f. 1983 as split from SLP
Solidarity
Against the Current
e-mail
tro.      - - f. 1986
Fourth International Caucus                tro. USFI - - formerly the Fourth Internationalist Tendency
South East Anarchist Network
     e-mail
anar.      - - f. 2004
Spartacist League of the U.S.      Workers Vanguard e-mail
tro. ICL - - f. 1966 as split from SWP, led by James M. Robertson
The Greens/Green Party USA
G/GPUSA Green Politics, Synthesis/Regeneration
e-mail
green FGPA - - f. 1984 as Green Committees of Correspondence
The Spark
The Spark
e-mail
tro. UCI - - f. 1971
Trotskyist Labor League
The Toiler e-mail
tro. ITLT - - f. 2003 as split from WIL, led by Sidney Martinez
Trotskyist Unity Organization           e-mail
tro.      - - f. 2003 as split from RWP(T-P), led by Joey Refallo
Truth      Truth
e-mail
ex-UIT, ex-Mov - - called Socialism! until 2001
United People National Party (Partido Nacional La Raza Unida)      El Sembrador e-mail
Chicano left. nat.      - - f. 1970
United States Pacifist Party
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pacifist      - -
Unity Organizing Committee unofficial
Unity e-mail
Asian-American      - - f. 1991 as split from League of Revolutionary Struggle
US Marxist-Leninist Organization
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e-mail
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Vermont Progressive Party
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left. soc.      - - f. 1999
Workers Action
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tro. CRFI - - f. 2003
Workers Democracy Network
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tro.      - -
Workers International League youth organization
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tro. IMT - - called Socialist Labor until 2001
Workers Party U.S.A
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stal. ex-alb. - - f. 1992
Worker's Socialist Party of the United States
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rad. left. - - split from WSPUS in 2002
Workers Solidarity Alliance
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anar. syn. AIT - - f. 1984
Workers World Party
WWP Workers World
e-mail
ex-tro., rad. left. ICS - 0.0011% f. 1959 as split from SWP
Working Families Party
WFP      e-mail
left. soc.      0.10% 0.11% f. 1999
World Socialist Party of the United States
WSPUS World Socialist Review e-mail
rad. left. WSM - - f. 1916

作者: 马列托主义者 时间: 2014-1-4 12:23:20

上面是美国的左翼组织列表，毛派只有托派的1/5不到

作者: 马列托主义者 时间: 2014-1-4 12:29:11

本帖最后由马列托主义者于 2014-1-4 12:40 编辑

秘鲁毛派也比托派少的多

Peru

Last update: July 15, 2004
PARTY PERIODICALS CONTACT IDEOL. INTERNAT. ELECTION
parl. '01 OTHER
Christian Democratic Union Unión Demócrata Cristiana UDC       fax: +51-14-415946 left. christ.       - f. 1999 as split from Christian Democratic Party
Communist Party of Peru [Louminous Path]
unofficial page, unofficial page Partido Comunista del Perú [Sendero Luminoso] PCP[SL] El Diario Internacional       mao. RIM proscribed pol.-mil., f. 1970 as split of PCP-Red Flag
Communist Party of Peru (Marxist-Leninist) Partido Comunista del Perú (marxista-leninista) PCdelP(M-L) Bandera Proletaria, Cuadernos Polémicos       mao. ICMLPO[M] inexistent f. 2001 after split from PCdelP(PR) in 1999
Communist Party of Peru (Red Homeland) Partido Comunista del Perú (Patria Roja) PCdelP(PR) Patria Roja e-mail ex-mao. FSP, ex-Chin., ex-ICMLPO[M] - f. 1969 as split of PCP-Red Flag
New Left Movement Movimiento Nueva Izquierda MNI Nueva Izquierda e-mail             - f. 1998
Democracy and Solidarity Democracia y Solidaridad DEMOS       e-mail center. left.       - f. 1997
Democratic Decentralist Party Partido Descentralista Democrático PDD       e-mail left. soc.       - f. 2002, led by Javier Diez Canseco
Democratic Left Izquierda Democrática                               - led by Luis Zea
Ecological Party Green Alternative of Peru Partido Ecologista Alternativa Verde del Perù Los Verdes       e-mail green FGPA - led by Alex Gonzáles
Green Party of Peru Partido Verde del Peru             e-mail green       -
Humanist Party of Peru Partido Humanista del Peru             e-mail humanist IH -
Libertarian Coordination Koordinadora Libertaria       Invasion Acrata e-mail anar.       - f. 2001
Malpica Committee Comité Malpica                               - led by Raúl Wiener and Ricardo Letts
Mariateguist United Party Partido Unificado Mariateguista PUM       e-mail left. soc. FSP - f. 1984, dissolves in PDD
Marxist Struggle Lucha Marxista             e-mail tro. LCMRCI, CCITP - f. 2000, led by Sergio Bravo
National Coordination of the Left Coordinadora Nacional de Izquierda                               inexistent f. 2002, alliance
National Front of Workers and Peasants Frente Nacional de Trabajadores y Campesinos FNTC / Frenatraca Nueva Izquierda tel.: +51-14-272868 left. indig.       - f. 1968
New Decentralist Republic Party Partido Nueva República Descentralista                               - f. 2003, led by Manuel Dammert
Party for the Social Democracy Partido por la Democracia Social - Compromiso Perú PDS       e-mail             - f. 1997, led by Susana Villarán
Peruvian Aprista Party Partido Aprista Peruano PAP       e-mail soc. dem. SI 19.71% f. 1930
Peruvian Communist Party [Unity] Partido Comunista Peruano [Unidad] PCP[U] Unidad, Nuestra Bandera e-mail com. ex-CI, ex-WMR, FSP - f. 1928 as Peruvian Socialist Party, led by Julio Renán Raffo
Popular Front Frente Popular                   left. soc.       inexistent f. 2003, led by Héctor Béjar Rivera
Proletarian Party of Peru Partido Proletario del Perú                         ICS - led by Illipa Tuta
Proletarian Struggle Group Grupo de Lucha Proletaria             e-mail anar.       -
Revolutionary Socialist Party Partido Socialista Revolucionario PSR El Socialista       left. soc. FSP, ex-CSL - f. 1976, led by Víctor Oliva Miguel
Revolutionary Workers Party Partido Revolucionario de los Trabajadores PRT             tro. ex-USFI - f. 1978, led by Raúl Castro Vera
Roots Movement Movimiento Raíz             e-mail rad. left.       inexistent f. 2002
Socialist League Liga Socialista                   tro.       - exists in Cusco
Socialist Left Force Fuerza de Izquierda Socialista             e-mail tro. IMT -
Socialist Party of Peru Partido Socialista del Perú PSP             left. soc. FSP - f. 1930 as split of PCP, led by Luis Mateo Munoz
Socialist Union Unión Socialista                   rad. left.       - led by Raul Wiener
Socialist Workers' Party Partido Socialista de los Trabajadores PST Bandera Socialista e-mail tro. LIT - f. 1982, led by Augusto Cárdenas
Socialist Workers' Party Partido Socialista de los Trabajadores PST       e-mail tro. UIT - f. 1992 as split from other PST, led by Enrique Fernández
Socialist Workers Union Unión Obrera Socialista                   rad. left.       -
The Struggle Continues La Lucha Continua                   tro. Mov -
Tupac Amaru Revolutionary Movement
unofficial page Movimiento Revolucionario Tupac Amaru MRTA Voz Rebelde e-mail rad. left.       proscribed pol.-mil., f. 1980
Union for Peru Unión por el Perú UPP       tel.: +51-14-4403227 soc. dem.       4.14% f. 1994, led by Henry Pease García
United People Movement Movimiento Pueblo Unido                               - led by Noe Romo
Workers' Party Partido de los Trabajadores PT El Trabajo       tro. ILCWI - f. 1994 by Revolutionary Marxist Workers' Party (POMR)
Workers' Power Peru Poder Obrero Peru POP Poder Obrero e-mail tro. ex-LCMRCI - f. 1986
Workers', Peasants', Students' and People's Front Frente Obrero, Campesino, Estudiantil y Popular FOCEP       tel.: +51-14-279270 rad. left.       - f. 1977 as all

作者: 马列托主义者 时间: 2014-1-4 12:31:15

本帖最后由马列托主义者于 2014-1-4 12:34 编辑

我看了一下西欧，毛派组织更少，有没有托派组织的1/20也是一个疑问

作者: 马列托主义者 时间: 2014-1-4 12:42:20

本帖最后由马列托主义者于 2014-1-4 12:53 编辑

我看了下，印度毛派特别多！印度和天朝是毛派的天堂,而且集中在这些国家的落后地区比如农村和内地，所以毛的农村包围城市等可以实施，在工人阶级为主的城市地区，毛派很弱小

作者: 王海明 时间: 2014-1-4 12:53:59

据這位托兄介紹，現在世界上正在掀起一股“托洛茨基熱”，正使我大開眼界，終算看到了他的夢幻世界。一个連世界上大多数人都無人知曉的大失敗者，居然還嘲笑毛澤東的“失敗”。

作者: 马列托主义者 时间: 2014-1-4 12:56:34

中国的毛右邓派掌权着，其他在野毛派，也可算是夜郎自大了

作者: 老汉 时间: 2014-1-4 13:42:48

本帖最后由老汉于 2014-1-4 18:45 编辑

文革期间，美国、欧洲、日本都开展了类似的红卫兵运动，高举毛泽东的画像，占领学校、占领政府大楼，其场面何其壮观！这些可不是在落后的农村包围城市的国家，这些都是在发达的资本主义国家。既然托洛斯基在国外也那么时髦，来一场世界托洛斯基革命运动看看。老汉喜欢看实际的，而不是水中楼阁。

作者: 王海明 时间: 2014-1-4 15:39:52

马列托主义者发表于 2014-1-4 12:56
中国的毛右邓派掌权着，其他在野毛派，也可算是夜郎自大了

為什麼鄧派還要打毛主席的旗号，就是因為毛主席在中国人民的心目中影响實在太大，要想消除毛主席影响，除非消滅１３億中国人民。

作者: 老汉 时间: 2014-1-4 18:37:39

文革期间，美国、欧洲、日本都开展了类似的红卫兵运动，高举毛泽东的画像，占领学校、占领政府大楼，其场面何其壮观！这些可不是在落后的农村包围城市的国家，这些都是在发达的资本主义国家。既然托洛斯基在国外也那么时髦，来一场世界托洛斯基革命运动看看。老汉喜欢看实际的，而不是水中楼阁。

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